SEASON 3: EPISODE 4 TRANSCRIPT
Noah McMahon
Noah McMahon: In philanthropy, that's one of the biggest challenges that currently exists is not enough people are swinging for the fences. There's a lot of safe bets being made. A lot of people are making terrific donations to terrific organizations, and there's some amazing ingenuity at some of the nonprofit organizations. Some of the charities that exist today are doing such incredible work. However, if they had boards that pushed them harder, they had donors that believed in them more, they could do even more. And I think too, if we can inspire more really brilliant people in business and technology and other industries to collaborate with philanthropists, I think that we have a lot to look forward from that as well.
Dr. Greg Jones: Our world is often defined by the challenges we face, complex problems that sometimes seem too large to solve, yet hope shifts our perspective. It allows us to see possibilities where others see barriers and to believe that bold, creative ideas can bring lasting change. Hope calls us not only to dream, but to act for the good of our communities and the world.
My name is Dr. Greg Jones, president of Belmont University, and I'm honored to be your guide through candid conversations with amazing agents of hope, people who demonstrate what it means to live with hope and lean into the lessons picked up along the way. They are The Hope People.
Today's agent of hope is Noah McMahon, a leader whose optimistic perspective on philanthropy reveals the power of generosity and innovation to solve pressing problems. Noah encourages us to imagine new possibilities for impact, ones that are rooted not just in dollars, but in design, bold ideas and outcomes that truly matter. In our conversation, Noah shares how simple solutions can have dramatic effects, why young people should be confident in their ability to make a difference, and how surrounding ourselves with positive mentors can unlock hope-filled action. His vision offers an inspiring reminder that the future of philanthropy is bright and filled with possibility.
Noah McMahon, it's a great joy to have you this afternoon on the podcast of the Hope people.
Noah McMahon: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. I love Belmont.
Dr. Greg Jones: It's a great joy to have you, and I love our conversations. I want to begin just by, you're such an optimistic person and always thinking about new ideas and big ideas. What's giving you hope and joy these days?
Noah McMahon: It's a great question. It's a long list of things. I love the word hope. Hope is such a great thing because I think that hope is really what can be our driver. It's what people need. People, when they don't have hope, it's a sad thing. When you do, you can accomplish anything. Because I work in the field of philanthropy. I am blown away by what I think the future of philanthropy looks like. And I think philanthropy has helped solve so many problems in the past.
And with the scope of how much philanthropy is coming at us in the future, how much of the current wealth that exists that's going to be put into private foundations and into philanthropy, the amount of money that's going in is going to be able to solve so many problems. So I think the greatest thing I look forward to is a 10X, 100X of all the amazing problems that have been solved by philanthropy. We have so much to look forward to in the philanthropy world.
Dr. Greg Jones: You shared with me a book that you put together for your clients one year, a Ripley's Believe It Or Not in Philanthropy. It's a wonderful collection of some breakthrough stories of things that have been solved and achievements that have been made through philanthropy. Could you share a story of something that inspires you and really keeps you going when you think about those sorts of breakthroughs and how that can inspire hope and joy?
Noah McMahon: Sure. I think that one of the most basic examples we talk about from the book is how when automobiles were versed invented, there were a lot of highway deaths because people weren't operating the motor vehicles in the right way. They were driving off the side of the road, they were hitting each other, there were fatal accidents. And philanthropy came together and thought, "We need to solve this. " And they came up with a concept called paint, and they put a line of paint down the middle of the road, one on either side, and there were two lanes all of a sudden on the highway. And the amount of highway deaths dropped dramatically as a result of the prevention of accidents. And when you think about how simple paint is, it's not about something that requires a lot of technology, it's just a real basic concept.
And some of the best solutions in the world are simple. It's not about how much money is needed. So many times people identify raising money and giving money away to charities as being aligned with solutions. And if you can separate the two, it's really important because it's not about raising billions of dollars, it's about coming up with the answers. And sometimes you can get people together without raising any money. And it's a matter of putting really smart people together to help come up with solutions. So I am so inspired by so many stories. I would love if more of these incredible stories could get out and more people could hear them because they'd get even more excited about philanthropy.
Dr. Greg Jones: One of the things I love about you is that you're young at heart and you have that kind of youthful optimism that things can be different. I remember a book I read a number of years ago about people who've affected significant change. The book was called How to Change the World, and it was looking at the Ashoka Foundation and investments they'd made around the world that had produced breakthroughs. And the conclusion that I reached as I read through it all was that what they held in common across these countries and different sectors was that they had over-invested in young people because the young people often were willing to do things others would say, "Well, we've tried that before," or they just have a way of seeing possibilities. And I see that in you and the ways in which you work with people is to try to help us open our eyes and become more imaginative. Talk a little bit about how you got into the work you do now with anonymous philanthropy.
Noah McMahon: I think that, like you said, I have an innate sense of curiosity and I want to do things that have never been done before. And when I was young, I really tried to come up with ideas that nobody had ever done and I wrote them down and then I tried to achieve them. And that's sort of been what I do in all aspects. And I spent about 10 years of my life working for the Walt Disney Company, and it was an inspiring, amazing experience because I was surrounded by people who were big dreamers. I mean, Walt Disney was certainly a dreamer and the people that I was able to work with came up with ideas that I thought were silly. And it was pretty liberating to be able to look at something that looks silly and looks impossible and sometimes it works. Even if it's only 20 or 30% of the time that it works, that's a lot because if you try enough, it happens.
So I was inspired a lot by the Walt Disney Company. And there are certain people that just think like that. There was a mentor I had named Sandy Quinn, who was a Disney guy who asked really, really silly questions. And when I would be in meetings at an early age, listening to him ask questions, I would think, "Oh, this guy's stupid. I know the answer to this question. Why is he asking it? " And as it turns out, he was able to use those questions to push a little further and to help make things happen. In fact, this guy, Sandy, he was part of the team that made the Cabbage Patch Kid dolls happen for Calico. And I think it was his idea to send one of the Cabbage Patch Kid dolls to space on a space shuttle. And it was just such a brilliant idea because it opened a lot of eyes and it was able to get a lot of media.
So one of the things I was able to do for Disney was to help them come up with really crazy ideas. And we got to do these things. And when we did it, it was great because it got a lot of attention on whatever it is that we were trying to market.
Dr. Greg Jones: And you've been able to do that in a variety of contexts. You helped launch the X Prize, some really big ideas. How have you thought about what you're trying to do, whether it's with Disney, with the X Prize, with anonymous philanthropy? You swing for the fences, so to speak.
Noah McMahon: Yeah. I'll tell you, I could give a lot of credit to mentors. And in that case, Peter Diamandis is the guy who came up with the idea for the X Prize. And we worked together to start a company called Zero Gravity Corporation to create and to give people the ability to float in weightlessness. And in the early days, I helped him raise some money for the X Prize. And the role that I played was very small overall. However, it was a huge honor because with the X Prize, what was able to happen is an enormous amount of leverage was able to be used to solve a problem that existed. And that is that you couldn't get to space. There was no way to get to space. One of the other books that I've been inspired by was Grant Cardone's book, 10X Thinking. When you think about swinging for the fences, doing thought exercises, thinking about things that you think are initially impossible, those are just absolutely important.
And I remember 20 years ago or so when I was first working with Peter, some of the things he would say to people would be so crazy, the ideas that he had. And those same ideas today are commonplace. There are things that everyone says, "Well, of course that's the case." So in philanthropy, I think that's one of the biggest challenges that currently exists is not enough people are swinging for the fences. There's a lot of safe bets being made. A lot of people are making terrific donations to terrific organizations and there's some amazing ingenuity at some of the nonprofit organizations. Some of the charities that exist today are doing such incredible work. However, if they had boards that pushed them harder, they had donors that believed in them more, they could do even more. And I think that's an amazing opportunity that philanthropic funders have going forward to find some of these amazing nonprofit leaders who've done amazing things and challenged them to think bigger.
Unfortunately, the nonprofit space, a lot of charities are constrained and they're forced to think too small and some of the minds that are in the charity world are brilliant. So I think that in the future we have that to look forward to. And I think too, if we can inspire more really brilliant people in business and technology and other industries to collaborate with philanthropists, I think that we have a lot to look forward from that as well.
Dr. Greg Jones: When I think of you, I think of the old line of Henry Ford, if he always relied on focus groups that old he'd ever come up with was faster horses that rather than thinking incrementally from what is and how might there be marginal improvement, you start in a much more design thinking of what would be the breakthrough achievement and accomplishment. How did you start anonymous philanthropy and what are the conversations you undertake with your clients?
Noah McMahon: It's interesting, Greg, because I helped for well over 20 years, helped a lot of charities raise a lot of money, build their boards, do amazing work. And after decades of doing that, I had a lot of funders come to me and ask for advice and say, "Hey, what charity would you give money to? " And as a contrarian, I said, "Let's think about a different question to ask. Instead of asking what charity I should give money to, let's start with what is it that you want to accomplish?" I'm a big Stephen Covey fan, so I always like to start with the end in mind. And when we, in the very beginning of anonymous philanthropy, would sit down with a donor and a funder and we'd say, "What is it you want to accomplish?" I would be laser focused on what the end point is, what is it that you want to achieve?
And what's super fun is that we were able to, like you said, use design thinking to think about philanthropy. And I'll tell you, one of the things that baffles me is that almost all money in philanthropy, if you look at how almost every private foundation gives their money away, it's reactive. There's a boardroom with a board and a whole bunch of money they need to give away. And they look at a bunch of people who've asked them for money and they react and they give the best ones money.
And we always encourage private foundations and folks like that who are our donors to really start first with what are the problems you want to solve. And if you frame it like that, you're going to be far more effective at doing what you do. In fact, it was a gentleman once that we were sitting with, I was talking to him about the philanthropy he had done in the past and he said, "Over the last 10 years, this is what we've done." And he gave me an Excel spreadsheet of probably 200 donations and he had given 50 grand here and 300 grand there.
And looking at the scores of grants that he's made, I said, "What are you most excited about?" And he just kept going back to, "I gave away X million dollars." And it was about the dollar amount, it was about the organizations, but he couldn't put his finger on what was solved, how the world was a better place. It wasn't about impact, it wasn't about results, it was just about the inputs as opposed to the outputs. So switching that and focusing on what outcomes exist as a result of your giving is a pretty natural way to think. It's how any business would run. You'd want to focus more on the results than you do the inputs. So we certainly are no smarter than the average person, but what we've really tried to do is bring the smartest people to the table. We love to work with subject matter experts.
We've worked with some of the best physicians, the best people in the world, from epidemiologists to rock stars who are really smart in the music industry and brought those experts together with the people who want to change the world. And when you bring really smart people together, amazing things can come from it.
Dr. Greg Jones: You work with a wide variety of collaborators, ranging from the Dalai Lama to Miley Cyrus and lots of people in between and athletes and celebrities and business leaders. How do you cultivate those relationships and what are the sources of sustenance for you in working with what's such a wide variety of folks?
Noah McMahon: One of our beliefs is that in every interaction we have, in every meeting we have, we try to focus on what's best for that person, individual, company, and we really try Try to get as deep as we can and to understanding what people's needs are. That's where we start. We work with a lot of athletes, musicians, celebrities. We don't ask anybody for favors. What we want to do is we want to understand what's lacking in their life that we can help give them. What fulfillment do they want? And then we look for opportunities to help them collaborate with the folks that we represent who are the funders. And what's great is that we only do things that are win-win, because when you ask for favors, that doesn't work. And what's better than a win-win is a win-win-win when there's three different parties at the table and all of them are winning.
And so that's really a prerequisite for what we do. And it's unbelievable how much value people who are influential, whether it's some of the names that you mentioned, they have big hearts and they want to accomplish things. And if you can find the alignment between what they want to do and what our clients want to do, one plus one can equal 67. It's unbelievable how that works. And so we've found that it's really important to start in a very authentic way and to focus on what it is that people need in their life. I use the word need because so many times the philanthropists we work with, they have a need for fulfillment. Some of the families we work with have a lot of money, and what we found is that money makes life difficult. A lot of people think that money just solves everything.
Well, up until a certain point, it's helpful. However, what we found is that a lot of the families we work with have a more difficult time being happy as a result of the complications that money has caused. And we find that philanthropy is one of the greatest ways to solve that, to help people find the fulfillment they're looking for in life.
Dr. Greg Jones: One of the significant features of your life, including the name of your company Anonymous, is that you not only don't seek the spotlight, you sometimes seem to actively shun the spotlight. I think of that wonderful line that closes George Elliott's great novel, Middle March. The last line of the novel is that things are not so ill between thee and me is half owing to those who lived faithful lives and rest in unvisited tombs. It's a shame those tombs are unvisited, but it's about the quiet faithfulness and effectiveness. And you seem to really enjoy being behind the scenes and not being out in the spotlight. And indeed, some of those students that you've talked about that you've mentored and that I've mentored are people who are doing really, really important work and not a lot of people know it and they don't care because they really love the work they're doing. Talk about that sense of anonymous and of being behind the scenes or living a quiet and faithful life.
Noah McMahon: Personally, I don't want to be recognized on a stage. I don't want to be celebrated or get awards. That's just not what I want. And I realize human nature for a lot of people is to want that. So there's certainly nothing wrong with wanting or accepting recognition that you deserve. But for us, what we found in our company is that if we can make it about our clients, if we can make it about the problems we're trying to solve and not about us, we can accomplish a lot more. I've been invited to a bunch of podcasts and I've never done it before because I feel like it's not my job to be out in front. We always try to encourage our clients to take our place and to do it in our stead. But in this particular case, my team was pushing me to do it because we do have a message and the message is about philanthropy and encouraging more people to do it. And so to the extent that we can use the pedestal that we do have to spread the word about how important philanthropy is and to inspire more people to do it and what's possible with it, that's terrific. But overall, being anonymous is something that we think is super important in our case, and it's a key, key element of who we are as a business.
Dr. Greg Jones: I want to connect that theme that you just so beautifully described to the sense of hospitality that you embody. You've cooked at the James Beard house and you started a restaurant and a winery, and hospitality is a key part of how you set tables for people, whether it's talking about philanthropy or bringing people together, those networks of friends and collaborators. There's a sense in which I think of you as a kind of Babette to go back to that great movie, Babette's Feast, and the joy and the hope that comes through that. How's hospitality a part of your sense of vocation?
Noah McMahon: It's so interesting that you say that because a lot of people use that word. And I just have to say this first. We have a new resident here in Nashville named Will Guidara who wrote Unreasonable Hospitality.
Dr. Greg Jones: Great book.
Noah McMahon: Unbelievable book. And what's so great is that he defines hospitality in the best way it's ever been defined and has inspired. In fact, every person at our company has read Unreasonable Hospitality because it's such a great book.
Dr. Greg Jones: As of all of my senior leaders.
Noah McMahon: I love it. Everybody should read the book because it helps teach what true hospitality ought to be, and then it helps you understand why it's so important. And I don't understand why it's not more baked into what all of us do in any industry. And I think that the principles of hospitality, which is what I was saying earlier, it's about understanding what people's needs are, anticipating them and helping to give it to them before they even know what they are. That's what Will does such a great job of explaining. And frankly, that's what we do in our business. We help serve people. And it's such a pleasure for me. I do have a lot of people come to our house, spend a lot of time with a lot of people, and that's a great challenge to anticipate. What is it that I could do that they would never imagine I would do before they could even think about it?
And I'll tell you, amongst our team, we all do our best to do that with every client. I'm super proud of the team that we have at Anonymous because they're super anticipatory. They've come up with some of the best ideas and it's amazing. There are so many things in this world that money can't buy, but they're better than what money can buy. And that I think is the opportunity for all of us is that our imaginations and our curiosity can solve problems and make people feel loved and seen in ways that things that cost money don't. And it's such an awesome opportunity. So we believe deeply in hospitality and not just serving someone a cup of coffee, but going much deeper than that. And it's something that we encourage everybody to study. But my gosh, it should be in everybody's DNA.
Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah. And as you know, Will Guidara makes the point in the book that you don't have to be in the hospitality industry, that it can be an integral part of any vocation, of any family, of any life. It's about how you make people feel. I
Noah McMahon: Think if you look at almost every type of profession, whether it's law or insurance or HVAC repair, if you are able to take those elements of hospitality and apply them to those businesses, any business, that's what makes the difference. Greg, the other thing that I find so crazy is that the principles that we're talking about, which is anticipating, really focusing on what people need, probably a single digit percentage of people really focus on this. And it's a lot of the elements of emotional intelligence, it's elements of a lot of things, but it's stuff that doesn't cost money. It's really easy to do. However, most people just don't really even understand it. And that's one of the great opportunities I think at universities like Belmont to teach those soft skills. I'll tell you, we have a client who's an amazing client in Minneapolis that owns a large hearing aid company, and they used to go to over 85 countries a year to give hearing aids to people who couldn't hear. And they have a method in which they give the hearing aids away, and it's all based on empathy, and it's about truly understanding what the needs are of the people you're serving. And people want to feel like someone cares about them, and people want to feel seen. That's really what they're looking for.
Dr. Greg Jones: You've had experiences with people in quiet spaces, as well as thinking about giving away large amounts of money, front row seat in the world of philanthropy. And you've talked about how we may be entering the golden era of philanthropy. And that's a sign of hope because it becomes a vehicle to have money be used to help solve problems and to help people flourish and see opportunities. What gives you the greatest hope when you and your colleagues think about the future of philanthropy?
Noah McMahon: One thing I think that's really interesting is that as a lot of money moves generationally, as young people, I guess they're often called next gen, as they receive large pots of money in a private foundation or they're told by grandparents or parents, "I want you to take over the family foundation." A lot of the young people see that as a burden and we see that as the most amazing honor and opportunity in the world. And I understand why they see it as a burden because they think it's hard work. They might not feel that they're worthy. And one of our greatest goals is to help people like that realize it's not a burden. It's the most incredible opportunity and we want you to figure out how to use it to make the world a better place and have a lot of fun while you're doing it.
And so we are truly entering the golden age for philanthropies. We look at the amount of money that is going to flow from one generation to another. There's never been anything like it. It literally is a hundred X what it's ever been before. And we are so optimistic about what that money can do going forward. And I think it's a combination between what the money allows and what the philosophy that we're talking about, how to think differently, how to be curious, how to focus on what the outcomes are that you want to achieve. It's the combination of those two things that make us hopeful because young people these days have the ability to think differently and to think bigger, and they're going to have financial resources through the great wealth transfer that's coming. And when these two things collide, really amazing things are going to happen. And what we hope to do is to give people the platform to do it.
Dr. Greg Jones: I want to conclude with a final question about young people. We've got a lot of them here at Belmont, and part of the joy for me is seeing the excitement and the enthusiasm, and yet there's also a lot of anxiety that they have about the future. What would your advice be to a young person who wants to make a difference like you've made and are making, who feels called to help cultivate purpose and achieve impact and solve problems, and yet they're not quite sure where to begin. Where would you point them and what sort of encouragement would you give to a young person?
Noah McMahon: Great question. I think when I was young, I felt like there were lanes that existed or walls and barriers that existed that I learned later didn't really exist. And the anxiety that you're talking about is way too common these days. And it's unfortunate and you can't snap your fingers and make it go away. They're going to unfortunately have to deal with these issues and figure out how to get around them. And anxiety is just, it can be so debilitating sometimes. So I think that for me, when I was young, I saw presidents of the United States or really important people, CEOs of companies, and they were very intimidating. And as I grew up and I got to work with a lot of these people, I realized they are human beings just like us. And so whether it's the professor in your classroom or the dean of your school, all these people are human beings who you can have conversations with and who truly want the best for you.
And I think as a young person, the most important thing is to do what it takes to find the confidence that absolutely should exist. There's not a young person on the planet today that shouldn't have confidence. And any reason that they don't have confidence is really because they're being lied to. They are important, they're absolutely worth it, and everybody has the potential. Surround yourself with people who do believe in you because there are a bunch of stories about people who've moved past that. And surrounding yourselves with those types of people will help you get past the tough parts and help you understand that you really could solve any problem and be anybody that you want.
Dr. Greg Jones: Thank you for participating in this conversation with the Hope People. Our aim is to inspire you to become an agent of hope yourself and to help us cultivate a sense of wellbeing for all. To join our mission and learn more about this show, visit the hopepeoplepodcast.com. If you enjoyed this conversation, remember to rate and review wherever you get your audio content.