SEASON 3: EPISODE 3 TRANSCRIPT
Dave Barnes
Dave Barnes: There's nothing more potent in the arts than someone who really believes they're who they are on purpose and creates into that, that really goes like, "I don't know if this is good or bad, but it is what I feel strongly about," because you can always do it. That's a gas tank that never runs dry because that's who you are. And then two, I think it's just trust God to open the doors because His doors lead to rooms you're meant to be in. What He made you to do, you have the bag for.
Dr. Greg Jones: Our world can so often feel defined by immense pressure to perform, to succeed, to measure up to expectations. Yet it's hope that reminds us that joy, authenticity, and faith can anchor us in what truly matters. It encourages us to embrace our unique gifts and to see creativity as a way of sharing light with others.
My name is Dr. Greg Jones, President of Belmont University. And I'm honored to be your guide through candid conversations with amazing agents of hope, people who demonstrate what it means to live with hope and lean into the lessons picked up along the way. They are The Hope People.
Today's agent of hope is Dave Barnes, a gifted musician whose natural humor, storytelling, and faith intersect in powerful and creative ways. Dave shares how he sought to remain joyful and hopeful in the face of challenges while letting his worldview guide his pursuit of both authenticity and success. In our conversation, Dave reflects on navigating the pressures of fame, the lessons fatherhood has brought to his life, and the joy of integrating talents in a holistic way. His journey offers a reminder that hope is found in how we live with joy, faith, and integrity. Dave Barnes, thank you for joining us today.
Dave Barnes: Yes, thanks for having me.
Dr. Greg Jones: I'd love to begin with just having you talk a little bit about you have this incredible mixture of faith, humor, music, and you're an incredible storyteller. Could you just describe how that came to be and how you see all those things intersecting?
Dave Barnes: Yeah. I mean, I think I always have loved making people laugh, so I think that part of it I sort of clocked pretty early in my childhood. It's just such a great feeling to make somebody laugh. I mean, that's a very sort of probably pedestrian take, but it's true. And so I've always kind of enjoyed telling jokes and doing characters. And early on it was making my mom laugh, and then it was my siblings and it was my friends, and now it's my wife, which is impossible, by the way. I made her laugh this weekend in the car, and the kids literally went, "Mom, why are you laughing this hard?" And I was like, I mean, that's the beauty of marrying someone that's hard to laugh as a funny person is like, you're like, "Here we go, another day, another shot."
Dr. Greg Jones: You have to raise the bar to get there.
Dave Barnes: You do, yes. Amen. And so that's kind of always been in there. I started doing music in college. And it's crazy to me that without any pedigree for writing songs, that was where I naturally went. I toyed with writing poems when I was in high school and trying to turn those into songs, but that's just what I did. And faith has always been a part of my life because my dad is a pastor and we grew up in the church and I had a really good experience with that. It wasn't one that was detrimental at all. My dad, I tell people all the time, my mom and dad always really pushed functional faith. Faith works. It's a functional thing. It didn't have this sort of cloud of glory around it. It also didn't have this really hyper critical judgmental thing to it in my childhood.
It was just this thing that I saw them do it, and I was like, this kind of looks like they're really nice people and great people. And so for me, there wasn't anything to rebel against because it was just like they didn't push that. My dad has never ever been one to be like, "Hey, you got to do this." And so for me, faith was always a part of my life. And so putting all of those things together was tricky because at the beginning I really thought, okay, I'm 47, and so the heyday of Christian music in my opinion was when I was in high school. That was your DC Talks and Jars of Clays and Chris Rice and Audio Adrenaline and all the stuff that was just so, so, so, so good. And so I was like, oh, I guess as I start to write songs, I should be a Christian artist because that's Caedmon's Call, Bebo Norman, Ed Cash, all the guys that I listened to in bands and artists, and Sara Groves, whoever.
I was like, that's what I'm going to do. But it's crazy because I would sit down and write songs that were like that and they were just hot garbage. I mean, I would play them for my friends and even kind of they were like, yeah, not really my favorite. But then if I tried to write a love song or a song about something that was faith adjacent, it was just so much more natural for me. So for me, I think I actually struggled trying to be something I wasn't towards a Christian career. And it was just so obvious that God was like that is not who I built you to be. So then the journey became, well, where am I supposed to go? And it was like I think bars and clubs and colleges and some churches here and there. And you have never...
I mean, growing up in the church like I did, I thought bars were full of people that were drunk trying to have extramarital affairs and fist fighting. That's just what I thought of bars. It was like when I walk in, it's going to be the cantina and Star Wars, and so buckle up, Christian young man. And then I realized, oh, it's just people. It's just like those people who would've come to that show just come to here to this show and it's just a building full of people, which sounds like a really elementary take, but it really informed my faith. There were so many nights where I'd be like, gosh, I just don't know how this is going to go. Because again, nothing about my music was just in your face about my faith, but absolutely had a Christian worldview and had some songs that leaned a little more that way than others.
But so they kind of all came together that way. And humor really helped me in those scenarios to relate to people. And I could be funny from the stage and then sing a song that maybe you had a little heft to it, but they liked that because it was set up by this kind of funny story or whatever. And it just helped me feel like myself. It helped me move through the world in a way that I thought was really authentic to who I was and it really helped me relate to people. I think it really gave them a way to understand me and who I was and what I was trying to do.
Dr. Greg Jones: Were your parents supportive of your humor? Was humor a part of life with your dad and your church?
Dave Barnes: Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. They-
Dr. Greg Jones: Because often Christians are associated with kind of this more judgmental, you've got to be very serious and check your humor at the door.
Dave Barnes: Yeah. I've thought about this a lot in my last couple years. Joy is talked about so much in the Bible, I mean so much. And as a weapon, which is really interesting. I think the Bible even kind of alludes to it as the way that we sort of move and push through the world is through our joy. They'll know us by these things, by the fruit of the spirit, which it's one of. And so for me, I think humor is such a gift. It's such a way to exhibit joy. It's such a way to say this moment may be hard, either this moment in the world or my life or literally in this day, but man, to be able to laugh in the midst of it shows a hope for something that is bigger than this and bigger this moment. And it's a way to sort of rebel against the darkness I think. I know that sounds kind of maybe too poetic.
And so my parents are hysterical. I mean, that is something they really instilled in us is a bunch of... Like we watched Three Amigos so much. I mean my parents love Saturday Night Live. And again, that's where I think my mom and dad did such a good job is they weren't the parents who were like, "These are all the things you can't do." They had an ability to see things like, oh, there is this redemptive quality in this that I think it's okay for us to engage. And yes, we need to watch out for some language maybe, but there's something here to mine that is valuable. And humor was a huge piece of that. Mom laughs so much and she was so funny, and my dad loves humor and he's funny. And so I think that really cultivated a thing in me that was like, wow, this really has value. People really enjoy laughing. And so I think even at an osmotic level, I think I just sort of took that on as a kid. And then I had a gift for it, which was really fun because then I could go out into the world and use it.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's awesome. My father's a pastor too and has this incredible sense of humor. My mom loved humor but wasn't very good at it. So she'd always tell my dad when we were having dinner, "Oh, tell that joke about..." And then she'd tell the punchline and my dad would just roll his eyes like this isn't going to work. But part of, I remember reading a book about leadership and it was commenting about Jerry Seinfeld and it said almost all comedy is about either swearing or sex, and that Jerry Seinfeld wanted to avoid both of those things. And I think humor can be so life-giving when we don't go for the cheap solution.
Dave Barnes: That's right, that's right.
Dr. Greg Jones: And that's part of what you do or what Nate Bargatze does is it's about ordinary life and it can be infused with that sense of faith. And I love what you say about joy because there is, Paul says in Philippians 4, "Rejoice in the Lord always," and he's in prison when he says it. And so I do think it pushes back the darkness. It does inspire hope in a really significant way.
Dave Barnes: I think to your point, it is much more of a weapon than we understand. And I really mean that. I think what a beautiful example of Paul in the prison. For him to navigate that season of his life in extreme discomfort and fear, his way to fight that was joy. That there was a sense of there's a way to still have joy in these circumstances is an incredible weapon against these things. And I think the more we understand that as believers, life just really changes. It really changes. The colors change. They really do. And I think to understand even if that joy is hinged on nothing else but that this pain only lasts for a moment.
Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah. I love what you were describing about pushing back the darkness. It reminded me of Corrie ten Boom when she was in the concentration camp and she and other believers would be over in the corner and they'd be praying, they'd be singing. And one of her fellow people in the camp said, "Oh, those are the crazy people who have hope."
Dave Barnes: Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: And there was a sense of joy even in a very dark circumstance. Where do you see signs of hope these days in your life and in the world?
Dave Barnes: Yeah, I mean I think I've just walked through a season where I was really anxious about a lot of things. And I was on a run and I was just in my head, I can get very in my head about things. And I just felt so clearly this thought. I'm not going to say it was the Lord. I'd like to think it was the Lord. But I just thought what gets me out of the game? What gets me out of the game of life? And I was like it's the loss of joy. It's when hope and joy have been stolen from me is when I'm on the bench. That's when all my superpowers go away. And I just felt so clearly that I was like I think I have to fight for this. I think I have to have discipline around having hope and joy because if I don't, I'm out of the game. I'm in the locker room. I'm not even on the field anymore. Because for me, joy is a gift God has really given me. And I think humor is a way I get to give that to the world and my music is the way I get to give that to the world. And I think joy and hope are so synonymous.
And so it's been really life-giving for me to go like how can I have joy and hope today? How can I find ways that God is still doing and acting? As opposed to it's just so easy to get frustrated or discouraged or whatever, anxious, worried, whatever. But instead going, okay, in this moment I'm going to choose not to do those things. I'm going to choose to have joy. I'm going to choose to... That's where the discipline part of it is so interesting and paramount to me is we really do have this choice. Corrie ten Boom had a choice. That group people had a choice. We can just sit here and despair or we can actively do something else that gives us joy and hope. And so I think for me, I just think in my personal life, it's weird that what has given me hope is having hope, is sort of having the discipline to have hope, to find hope and joy in what God is doing.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. Part of what I love about you and the way in which you are in the world and your performances, it all seems so integrated. When you were at the Fisher Center for A Dave Barnes Christmas, it was you there. Husband, father, musician, storyteller, stand-up comic, it's all integrated. How do you think about that discipline of joy and hope as you think about the kind of range of responsibilities you have as a husband, as a father, as a performer, as a songwriter?
Dave Barnes: Yeah. That's a huge compliment by the way. It means a lot you said that, integrated. Man, I hope that I'm becoming more integrated because I think when you do, and we all have all these things we do, all of us, not just me, all of us, but for me, it's husband, dad, son, brother, believer, podcaster, singer, part-time comedian, artist, all those things, performer. I just feel like, man, if I can get all of those to be who I am and I don't over identify with one of them, what does it look like to be all those things, it just keeps my head so much more level because then the identity piece isn't just one of them, which eventually will just kill me because when that thing doesn't go well, then I'm toast. And to sort of understand that I'm all these things.
I mean more than anything, I'm a child of God. But just to take the weight off of just one, to just spread the weight over all of them in a healthy way so that it's not... And I think they inform each other so much. That's the other part of integration I think is so important is the music's going to inform the humor that's going to inform my parenting, that's going to inform the podcast, that's going to inform my relationship with Annie. And so the through lines are always there. And I think cutting them off from each other can feel like a really wise discipline, but I don't know that it is sometimes because I think they have to sort of help each other out in ways.
Dr. Greg Jones: I want to turn to a moment when you had incredible success. Blake Shelton records-
Dave Barnes: I thought you were about to say my marriage. That was the biggest success.
Dr. Greg Jones: Blake Shelton records your song, God Gave Me You. How did that kind of give you a sense of both success or perhaps challenge your sense of who you are?
Dave Barnes: Success is a really, really tricky thing. I mean, I know you know this from your career too. Man, do we underestimate it. I mean, I think we underestimate it maybe as much as we underestimate anything in the world. I think Ecclesiastes, God was like, "I'm going to give you basically a book on this and you're still not going to understand it." Because no matter who you are, you really think it's going to make you better. And you can sit with the masters of the world, you can sit with the Dalai Lama to the Pope to your Tim Kellers, whoever, and they can tell you to your face, "This is going to kill you," and you're like, "Yeah, but not me. Because once I get that, then I'm..." And one, I think they forget that success scales, which is that's its great cloak and dagger move is to go, once you get me, you're going to be good. And then it's okay, well, now just a little more. And you're like, okay. And then before you know it, you're doing the thing.
So I think for me, it was really tricky because I had pretty humble ambitions. I mean, I wanted to be the best I could and I wanted to see my songs matter to people, but I never was like, man, I want to be playing for thousands of people. That was just not me. And so when Blake recorded it, and I think this happens to a lot of people with successes, it was like all of a sudden it was like, oh, shoot, have I underestimated myself? And that just opened a Pandora's box of problems. Because the song I wrote by myself. Because even if I think you co-write something, it gets a little more spread out. When you've done something just by yourself, it's kind of like, whoa, that's a potent move there.
And it sort of feels like too, on an occupational level, you're suddenly invited into a different party. It's a much more exclusive party. You get nominated for a Grammy, for a CMA award, all the things. I lost all of them, but you get nominated. And so then it's like, well, hold on, I didn't have these expectations for myself, but do you now and do I need to? And so I think there's a real head you know what when you kind of go, oh, shoot, I've had a success that I didn't even know I could have. Or even for the people that were striving for it and you get it because then you've just really started this weird part in your head that's going to probably last most of your life of, well, then I have to either keep doing it and if I don't, am I a failure or was I wrong? Were they wrong? Was that a fluke? Did I not have it? And so I think for me, I'm better at it now, but there were years where I was like so in my head about it.
And know what's weird too is that story is really interesting because I was in a really frustrating season of my career and I talked to Annie about it so much on these long walks. And so I wrote God Gave Me You. I sent it to my producer, Ed Cash, and he was like, we had already cut the record, but he was like, "We got to record this song." And I was like, "Oh, shoot, okay." So we added another song kind of last minute, brought the band in, we cut it. He calls me and he's like, "Hey, listen, I want to produce this in a way that you're probably not going to like because I know you, but I think we may be sitting on a pretty substantial song here." And I was like, "Really?" He's like, "Yes." And I was on the road and he's like, "So I'm going to send it to you. Listen to it five times before you call me because you're going to call me and tell me you hate it. I know you will. But just trust me. You hired me. You love me. We're good friends. Listen to it five times."
I remember the first time I heard it, I was like, "I hate this. It's too poppy. It's too hooky." Which is like who in their right mind says those words as a singer-songwriter? Well, then Chris calls me, my manager at the time calls me again and says, "Hey, Chris Hauser, this really big Christian independent radio promoter, thinks it's a Christian hit." And I was like, "No, no, no. I don't do Christian music. That's not where I'm supposed to be." And I'm telling you as clear as a bell, the Lord gave me this word. Because I'd pushed against the mix, I'd pushed against the Christian. And God said to me, "You can't pray for encouragement and then qualify the encouragement." And I was like, "Touche, Lord. Touche. Well played my man." So I was like, "Let's do it." So then it's a huge hit on Christian radio. I have the most fun I've ever had in my career going on Christian radio shows, playing these cool events with all my... I had so many friends that are in CCM. It was just so life-giving.
And so at the end of that year, I got in front of all the radio programmers for CCM, and I got super emotional. I said, "Guys, y'all were used to answer this prayer of encouragement. Thank you so much." And the funny thing is that was only the beginning because then through my song being on the radio is how Blake hears it. So if it hadn't gone to Christian radio, not just would I have not been encouraged, but Blake wouldn't have heard it. Well then Blake goes, "Hey, I think I want to play at my wedding." And then he goes, "Well, what if we record it?" Well, then they single it. It's a huge hit. So in God's hysterical economy, God is like, "See, you prayed for this one encouragement and I gave it to you." But here's the thing that's so funny about God. It's at the same time though, it added this huge weight. And it's interesting how God is okay with that, that God wasn't like, "Hey, my blessings for you sometimes carry burdens too, and that's for you to manage and that's what we'll walk through."
So it was a really weird season of elation and going to... One of my favorite memories of my grown adulthood is all of my family, my mom and dad, sister, brother, their spouses, my wife, we all went to LA for the Grammys and hung out for a week and had so much fun and then went and lost. And it was just like, that is one of my favorite adult memories. And those kind of moments and meeting people, and you're nominated and you'd go to these award shows, the CMAs here in Nashville. But also, man, I was taking on so much water weight of what do I do with this? What do I do with this? I think God was like, "Yeah, this is good for us to learn together." It's weird how God works that way. It's even the ways that blesses, he has this way of sanctifying us even in those things. Yeah.
Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah. A previous podcast guest, our mutual friend Al Andrews is known for saying the human heart is not made for fame.
Dave Barnes: It's not.
Dr. Greg Jones: How have you navigated those challenges as you get nominated for these awards and people start to know you, and you're not just Dave Barnes, you are Dave Barnes? And how has your faith helped sustain you as a person of hope and joy as you navigate the temptations and the burdens of success?
Dave Barnes: I don't know that I've done it well. I mean, I'll say it this way. My faith has been the lead boots that have kept me on the ground. It really has. I think it's been the way that I've stayed pedestrian and not sort of an astronaut. Cult of personality has always been really terrifying because I think I'm also drawn to it. And so I think early on, I was like, boy, fame seems, if I really lean into this and sort of play to it and go, "You're right. Well, thank you guys. It's good. I'm glad y'all could meet me too." It just felt like really inauthentic to who I am, one. And I'm weird because I'm a pretty extreme extrovert. I love people. I have so many friends because I need them. And so I'm also just kind of not built to be the guy that's off to himself enjoying his own glory.
And I'm just a fan, man. I love music so much. If Stevie Wonder walked in here right now, I'd have my shirt off and be hugging him before you could count to three. So that's also part of me too, is I'm like, oh, I get the energy you're sending at me because I have that too. So any crossroads I came into my career where it was like, okay, we can either scale this thing or do a more sort of functional left turn toward manageability, I was always like, let's go left. I don't want to do the right thing. That feels too... Some I'm sure was out of fear and what if I do that and I fail. But I think there was also a healthy amount of, it's like, I just don't like where that goes.
My dad has this thing we talked about a lot in high school. He'd say, "Well, then what? So then what?" And it's a practice I still use a lot, which is to... So example, okay, Dave, what do you want to do with the music? I want to be famous. Okay, so what do you do first? Well, then I play a show. Okay, then what? Well, then people will come. And then what? Well, then more people will come. And then what? Well, yeah, you try to scale. But then what? Well, then it gets bigger. Well then what? Oh gosh, I guess I'm away longer. Great. And then what? Well, then I have to do more of that if it works. Okay. And you start going like, oh, I don't like that. So let's do the other thing.
And so I think for me, as much as it's a draw and I would love to be the guy that walks in rooms and everybody just starts clapping and stop it, there's also a part of me that goes, this will kill you. This will kill you, Dave. It will kill you. It will make you the opposite of who you want to be. So in some ways, I think I'm just really blessed to have a wife and people I've worked with that have really helped me not be that way. And I don't even know if I'm good enough to be that way. That's the other humor. It's not like I'm Michael Jackson or somebody, but in my small version of that. Because I think the effectiveness of my gift set is for people to feel like me, not to admire me. You know what I mean? All of my effectiveness goes out the window that you don't feel like you can relate to me.
Dr. Greg Jones: Well, and you do that beautifully in Dadville. Dadville is this great vehicle where vulnerability and struggle and humor meets hope and joy.
Dave Barnes: Yeah. Thanks for saying that. I love that.
Dr. Greg Jones: Talk about why you wanted to do that and maybe share a story that's given you a sense of hope through Dadville.
Dave Barnes: Yeah. I think John and I wanted to do it because we end up talking about our kids all the time. And so we're like, I bet you other people want to talk about dad stuff. I mean, it's really... You know this. You've been a dad a long time, even though you're still in your mid-thirties.
Dr. Greg Jones: Thank you.
Dave Barnes: You're welcome. But that is a conversation me and my friends have. It dominates a lot of our time together is talking about being dads. How's that going with your son? How'd that go? How's your daughter? And I thought, why is there're not more of a forum for this with dads? Because dads kind of get such a bad rap. We're checked out, we're working too much, or we don't know everything about what the kids are doing or whatever. John and I both just thought, that's not true. There are dads who really love being dads, that do it really well, or at least have the right intentions to do it well, which I feel is me at least. And so having a place where we can honor that is just I love that, I think it's a really beautiful thing.
And I think the quote that I probably share the most that I feel like I've learned from Dadville that really challenges me is we had Stephen James on who's a therapist here in town, and he said, "You can never take your kids farther than you've gone yourself." And I think it's a real marker for me on the work we do with the Holy Spirit on our own lives. So that prayerfully, whenever my kids come to me in their adult life and say like, "Hey, dad, I've noticed this thing that really hurt me as a kid, or that you do this thing or you did it the other day," That if I know myself well enough, if I'm well acquainted enough with my sin, then I can go, "Oh, no, I know that." So I'm not going to respond to you out of anger and go, "How dare you accuse me of that," because you don't know it. But instead I go, "Oh, I know, I know. And I'm so sorry." And so that's been a real kick in the pants of just, it gives me a real marker in my life to remember I'm blessed by it, but my family gets really blessed by me doing the work to make sure that I know what it is that I'm capable of.
Dr. Greg Jones: What do your kids think of the conversations you have with John?
Dave Barnes: They don't have a clue. They're just like... You know what's really sweet? And I can almost get teary thinking about this. I don't expect them to listen to 10 of them, much less 230, but it is a sweet thing to think that they'll be around if they ever want them. I thought about that about a year ago, and I got so emotional thinking about it, just like what a cool thing that is for them if they want to access it to just know me better or know what my intention was. That's something I thought a lot about. It's like I just, I'm not going to do so many things well, but I just pray they always know my intention.
Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah. When you say that, it took me back to a memory. My dad died more than 40 years ago, but after he died, some people sent me cassette tapes of sermons he'd preached. And I found a sermon that he, I listened to a sermon he'd preached. It was in Nebraska. I wasn't there. And it was during a time when I was a teenager. And he told a story about his son's enthusiasm for movies, and he talked about how I would be like this evangelist for a movie I'd seen. "You have to go see it. You have to do that." And he turned that then to say, "I wish we all had the same enthusiasm for the gospel that my son has for movies." And I heard that and I thought, "Oh, he liked me." He said something and I just started sobbing.
Dave Barnes: It's so powerful.
Dr. Greg Jones: That connection. I had no idea he'd ever thought that, or much less told a whole congregation that was listening to him. So that intergenerational connection is a great resource.
Dave Barnes: I think it's a pretty natural trajectory to not really get interested in your parents until you get older, until you really start living your own life as a parent and going how did y'all do this? And it's been really interesting for me to learn things about my parents through conversations with them now. Or I'm like, "Hey, what was that like?" And they're like, "Oh, it was hard." And I'm like, "Really?" So I think when I think about Dadville, I'm like I love that if they ever want to access that, they can, that they go, they can think about that.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I want to conclude with a question for you about our students at Belmont. When you think about young people, many of whom want to make it in the industry in one or another of the varieties of things you do, comedy, music, storytelling, podcasting, and yet they're facing an industry that's got lots of challenges in so many ways, what would you want to say to a young person who wants to have that integrated life with faith and storytelling and everything else, what would you want to say to them about how to both cultivate and maintain joy and hope as they think about their future?
Dave Barnes: Yeah. I think the two things that I think of are one, to just really be who God made them to be. There's nothing more potent in the arts than someone who really believes they're who they are on purpose and creates into that, that really goes like, "I don't know if this is good or bad, but it is what I feel strongly about," because you can always do it. That's a gas tank that never runs dry because that's who you are. I think that's one. And then two, I think it's just how to follow the Lord. I think about my early career, and I can take zero, I mean, through any of it, I can take zero credit. But I think especially in those early years, it just felt like God just kept opening doors. It just felt like something would happen. I go, oh, that's cool. I'll go do that. And then it was like, oh, then another one. It just took the onus off of me. It just took the weight off of I'm constructing a career and this is what it's going to look like.
And so that would be my other piece of encouragement is just to trust God to open the doors, because His doors lead to rooms you're meant to be in. The ones you kicked down to get in can really get you in trouble. And I think the burden of where God calls you to be is always manageable. What He made you to do, you have the bag for. And then you know when it's not because you'll feel it, you'll feel the weight of it and go, "Something's not right." And so I think being yourself and while being yourself really trusting God and following the open doors He provides I think is a really great way to begin that.
Dr. Greg Jones: Beautiful and wise words. Dave Barnes, you're one of The Hope People, a source of inspiration any joy.
Dave Barnes: Thank you.
Dr. Greg Jones: It's been great to have you today.
Dave Barnes: Thanks for having me.
Dr. Greg Jones: Thanks so much.
Dave Barnes: Yep.
Dr. Greg Jones: Thank you for participating in this conversation with The Hope People. Our aim is to inspire you to become an agent of hope yourself and to help us cultivate a sense of well-being for all. To join our mission and learn more about this show, visit TheHopePeoplePodcast.com. If you enjoyed this conversation, remember to rate and review wherever you get your audio content.