SEASON 1: EPISODE 7 TRANSCRIPT

The Hope that Perseveres

CeCe Winans: It's the simple things that have kept me on the right path and my desire has been really simple, and that is to please God in every decision that I make. And I've always wanted to honor him with my life. And when I wanted to give up, it was just like, Lord, what do you want? It's not about me, but what is your will for my life? How do we handle this situation? And whenever you submit everything you do to him, it continues to lead you in the right direction. The way I started, I wanted to continue and it's a lot of things in life in this industry from recording to the different things that I've done that can try to pull you away, distract you from the simple, narrow road. And I was just determined not to be distracted. There's no way I'm turning off the path.

Dr. Greg Jones: Our world is facing significant challenges and at every turn, another conflict seems to await, yet we survive, we overcome, we even thrive by relying on an intangible and undeniable gift. Hope, it fills us, connects us, highlights our individual purpose and unites us in the goal to do more together. Hope fuels us toward flourishing as people and as a community.

My name is Greg Jones, President of Belmont University, and I'm honored to be your guide through candid conversations with people who demonstrate what it really means to live with hope and lean into the lessons they've picked up along their journey. They are The Hope People.

Today's champion of hope is CeCe Winans, widely known as the bestselling most awarded female gospel artist of all time. Her impact reaches beyond the music industry influencing her family and fans, providing hope and a focus on the future through faith and an unwavering devotion to the universal language of music.

CeCe Winans we're so glad you're here and you are one of the people who just inspires me. Anytime I see you, because you've got joy in your eyes as well as in your gorgeous singing voice and just the way you are, you do so many different things. So you're a performer, you're also involved as a founding pastor at Nashville Life Church and you do conferences and you talk with younger people and you work across the generations in such powerful ways. How do you have such energy to do all those different things? Because you're also on the road and that's got to be challenging and you're a wife and a mom, and a grandmom.

CeCe Winans: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Greg Jones: All those things. So how does it all hold together?

CeCe Winans: Sometimes it can be challenging just in the planning of it all. I have a wonderful husband of 39 years, Alvin Love, and he's always been a great, great support. I could never do what I do by myself or without his agreement and blessings and everything else that he brings to the table. But the joy that I have is something that I'll always want to share. It's something that I always want to share. It's something that I know that if people will embrace their lives will be changed. I tell people all the time when I started out singing my first solo, I was probably about eight years old and I was in church, but professionally, I started singing for other people when I was about 17 years old. What am I? I'm 58 now. I don't know when, I tell everybody, I don't know when I became part of the older generation, but it happened, time kept going.

But because I fell in love with God at a very young age, my heart is for young people and so it's like I want to tell all the young people I run into, fall in love with him now. There's daily benefits and serving him. And so I love to share the message of Jesus and the message of life and joy just comes with it. Joy is a part of it and the energy just comes from, I live a life of gratitude, I live a life of gratitude and service. I learned... I think a lot of people think when you give then you're going to lose or you're going to subtract from your life. But I've always found the more I give, the more it's added to me.

Dr. Greg Jones: It's a gift and we should have gratitude for life itself.

CeCe Winans: Yeah.

Dr. Greg Jones: And the older I get, I think about just being grateful for another day

CeCe Winans: Yes.

Dr. Greg Jones: In that sense.

CeCe Winans: Yes, that's right. That's right. Every day-

Dr. Greg Jones: You're milking everyday.

CeCe Winans: Everyday-

Dr. Greg Jones: In some extraordinary way. You told a story when we first met and had lunch a couple of years ago, and you had just recently done a live song with Carrie Underwood as part of the Academy of Country Music Awards, and you were at the Ryman and you came out and the two of you sang a duet. Great Is Thy Faithfulness.

CeCe Winans: Great Is Thy Faithfulness.

Dr. Greg Jones: And I remember watching that and it was the pandemic, it was a hard time, and I remember asking you about what was going through your and Carrie's minds as y'all are singing. This wasn't... Great Is Thy Faithful is not known as a country song.

CeCe Winans: No, no.

Dr. Greg Jones: But there you are on the Academy of Country Music.

CeCe Winans: That's right.

Dr. Greg Jones: You're singing this duet and there was the joy in both of your faces and the hope, it was inspiring. Talk about that.

CeCe Winans: Well, Carrie is amazing. Meeting her and seeing her faith was just inspiring to me. We got a chance to really know one another and talk, and her faith is her foundation and she talked about growing up in the church, we had similar upbringings where she was singing in the church and this was one of her favorite hymns. She actually did a whole hymns record, which is so powerful. It is really a powerful, powerful record and she has a powerful voice, she's somebody's singer, that's all I can say. So coming together, it was just, even though we come from different worlds, we were more alike than we were different, and we connected on the thing that mattered the most and that is the faithfulness of God. We both had that testimony of God being faithful throughout our lives and we wanted to take the platform that we both have at this point to share.

So singing it was just like me looking at, I won't even say my little sister, my daughter saying, come on, you can do this. Let's do this and let's have fun. Let's show the world. Let's share this message because we serve a God that we can depend on. He never changes, his word is just as powerful now, even in the midst of a pandemic that it's ever been. And so singing that song with her was just a lot of fun, but our prayer was that people's lives would be touched and impacted in a way that would bring about hope

Dr. Greg Jones: And you succeeded, it was amazing.

CeCe Winans: Awesome.

Dr. Greg Jones: I got to say, yeah, you can praise her voice, but you got a pretty good one yourself my friend, that it was just incredible.

CeCe Winans: We had a good time.

Dr. Greg Jones: Talk for a minute about who inspires you and who gives you a sense of hope these days that you just, when you're down, you think of them or you listen to them.

CeCe Winans: Yeah.

Dr. Greg Jones: Who gives you hope?

CeCe Winans: So many things give me hope. I'm a product of those who, like we all are, but a product of those who went before me. So when I think about my parents, my grandparents, my great-grandfather who was a minister, I'm very grateful for their sacrifice, their willingness to pour the scriptures and wisdom and love into my siblings and I, because really the hope comes from the foundation that I have. It's not just what's coming, but what has already been laid that keeps me going, that keeps me motivated. When you see that next generation being born, it's like, oh my God, he's faithful to every generation. It gives you more reason to live, more reason to make an impact, planting trees and taking out the time to give to something that you might not be around to see, but it's so worth it, but I'm inspired by uplifting things.

The Bible tells us when we meditate on good things, he'll keep us in perfect peace, when we keep our mind state on him and also tells us to think on things that are good, that are lovely, and that's what I live my life doing, and so therefore I'm full of hope. Even in the worst situations, I know that everything's going to be all right. I listen to positive and uplifting music. I think it's so important to understand that whatever you take in, whatever you look on, whatever you listen to, will affect you in a good way or bad. It's real important to me to guard my heart and mind and to guard my hope so that I can keep it going.

Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. I want to go back to the image that you evoked that we have talked about, about planting trees under whose shade you won't sit because you've planted lots of trees with the music that you've recorded, and I think about how our grandchildren will be able to listen to your singing, and that you have that sense of music as a gift to the generations. Talk a little bit about how does music play a role in what you're trying to convey to other people, and the impact that you think you can have across a longer timeframe than perhaps the particular night you're singing.

CeCe Winans: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Music, first of all, we all say it. It's the universal language. It's the language that people get. It's the language that touches hearts all over the world. I've traveled abroad where people couldn't speak English and still the power of the music, the power of the message, the power of the spirit of music. We also know that not just children, but all of us, we can learn a song before we can learn anything else. We get those lyrics, and if the music is with the lyrics, then somehow you can remember, and it's also a blessing, like you said, when you are able to record music, it lives on forever and generation after generation and after generation can be touched by your music.

So when I go into a studio or even when I sing in a live performance, I'm always thinking past that night. I'm always thinking, what can God do with these songs and these lyrics and the hearts of the people, not just tonight, but throughout eternity. God always thinks about generations, he's way ahead of us. He never just talks to us and just us. He's after everybody who's coming after us, and so music is powerful. He created it to worship him, to bring love, to bring peace, to bring hope, and for me to get a chance to sing songs of hope, again I'm just totally grateful.

Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah, that's beautiful.

CeCe Winans: I'm totally grateful, and I think that's why it's so powerful because when music is lined up with what God created it to be, praises to him, truth, love, hope, when it's connected to music, I don't think there's anything more powerful than that.

Dr. Greg Jones: I think of Saint Augustine saying that anybody who sings, prays twice because both the words and the music.

CeCe Winans: Yeah. That's good.

Dr. Greg Jones: The music can touch your soul in a beautiful way.

CeCe Winans: Yeah. Music is amazing.

Dr. Greg Jones: You're widely known as the bestselling female gospel artist of all time. I mean, the impact you've had is extraordinary. I could fill up this entire podcast just by reciting all the Grammys and Dove awards and all the achievements, and yet there's something that stays so centered in your music. We live in a time when people like to go negative, and yet you stay centered in the gospel in a way that's really oriented toward joy and hope and the positive sense of what we're called to in a really beautiful way. Could you talk about what songs and what music draws you to that? Even when perhaps people, or maybe even you are having a dark time and you're struggling?

CeCe Winans: So good that you brought that up because we all face challenges, myself we face bad times. I always tell people I go through rough times, but I never have a bad day. I just refuse to give the devil my whole day.

Dr. Greg Jones: I need to remember that.

CeCe Winans: Not a whole day. I might have a bad moment, a moment or two, but I will never give up my whole day because God is just too good. Like you said, his mercies are new every morning. I didn't have to get up to even be a part of this trial. I can always find a reason to be grateful and a reason to be thankful, and that's the thing about the hope of Jesus, it's steady, it's steady in the good times and the bad. A lot of people lose who they are in the midst of good times. Like you said, all the different awards. The awards, I'm so grateful for them, but when I'm having a bad day, you can look at an award all day long and it's not going to do anything for you.

But when you listen to music and specifically gospel music or worship music, it's the spirit of God. There's a passage in the scripture where Saul is being tormented by spirits and he calls for David to come and play, and when David plays, because the music is anointed, the heavy dark spirits have to go. So even there, it shows that music can shift your whole attitude. It can shift your whole heart. It can shift your whole day. It can shift your whole mindset because of the spirit of God that's in the music. And so when I'm having a bad day, I know, let me put on the worship, let me begin to worship, open up my mouth and praise God. It's the sacrifice of praise that will pull you out of a pit. You have to understand that he's faithful no matter what you're going through.

Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. People know you as a singer and a performer and Gospel Artist. I want to talk about a different dimension of your life. You're an entrepreneur. You've done it in a variety of ways, in your performance as a musician, in starting Nashville Life Church, in the generations conferences, in the new ways you continually open up possibilities both for yourself and for others. You have that entrepreneurial mindset, and that's one of the things that at Belmont, we really want all our students, not just the business students, to really think about that sense of a mindset that's focused on what possibilities there are for the future. Talk about how you keep thinking about what's next and what's new with that kind of entrepreneurial mindset. I mean, I'm sure you weren't looking for something to do when you started Nashville Life Church. It wasn't out of boredom.

CeCe Winans: No. I was definitely not looking for something else to do and was definitely not looking to start a church, but again, when God is the center of your life, you're not your own.

Dr. Greg Jones: That'll preach.

CeCe Winans: Yeah, yeah. You're not your own. And you said all the things that I've done or what I do, but I'm a believer who happens to sing. I'm a believer who happens to teach. I'm a believer who happens to record. I'm a believer first, and so the belief in that relationship is what leads my life, and so my husband and I to start the church we're like, you got to be kidding.

We've only been pastors... Our church is only about 12 years old, so we were good and grown. But during that time, Greg, I put my music aside and I focused on the church. A church is like a baby, and I stayed focused on the church for probably about eight years. Then I knew it was time for me to go back and record again. Now, a lot of people are like, how are you going to go back in your career? Your career is probably gone now, but because I was in God's timing, I went into the studio, recorded Let Them Fall in Love, and we won two Grammys for it that year.

Dr. Greg Jones: Amazing.

CeCe Winans: So timing and the leading of the Holy Spirit and understanding who you are and what you're called to do is most important than anything that you actually do.

Dr. Greg Jones: Absolutely. That's powerful. And your latest tour and upcoming tours, the Believe For It.

CeCe Winans: Yes.

Dr. Greg Jones: Which is a powerful song you sing. You've also included storytelling as a piece of that and asking people what they're believing for to engage people. What prompted you to want to make that a part of the tour?

CeCe Winans: Because I have been believing for miracles. Again, when we went into the studio with this particular record and the song Believe For It was during the pandemic, people were hurting. People needed to have an encounter, a true encounter, and so we prayed and we believed that God would do something extraordinary and would touch the lives of his people, and we would hear the testimonies about it. And I got one the other day, incredible testimony that I just read today actually from this song, and it's nothing more powerful than testimonies when people can say, I heard this song, I sang it, I meditated on it, and I did what it told me to do, believed. And because of that, they received a miracle.

Dr. Greg Jones: Wow.

CeCe Winans: You know? So when you ask me what keeps you going, it's like, oh my God, the faithfulness of God and the lives of people that have heard our ministry and our music and have experienced true miracles. All of the stories make what we do real.

Dr. Greg Jones: That's powerful. I hear that you're both a storyteller and a story listener, and that connection that creates a community so that you're not only going on stage to a large group of people who you don't particularly know, but the invitation for them to share their stories with you has to be a way of connecting you to them in a deeper way.

CeCe Winans: Yeah. Well, I think through my music, I tell my story. I tell how God speaks to me, the benefits that I've received from serving him and just what he means to me in my everyday life, I've been able to do that. And so to hear other people's stories and we connect on the most intimate level is because we're connecting at the cross of what the faithfulness of God has meant to them, their story of how they were able to hold on and have hope in the darkest situations. It is not just about coming, hearing a song, but it's about the soul, and so we connect because of the stories.

Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. Your son who's a Belmont graduate.

CeCe Winans: Yes, yes he is.

Dr. Greg Jones: Pastor and songwriter. Following somewhat in his mama's footsteps.

CeCe Winans: Yeah.

Dr. Greg Jones: When you think about the younger generation of students and musicians and people aspiring to become like CeCe Winans, you're irreplaceable, but they could become like you. What advice would you have for them that could give them hope and a sense of joy in their calling?

CeCe Winans: Wow. For my children and for those who are coming after me, I just think there's so much more. I think every generation, he wants to do more, and so my prayer is always for them to go further than I've ever gone. Your gifts are wonderful, but there's gifted people all over the world, and so I tell them to be who they are. This is a very competitive field if you let it be, if you begin to compare yourself with other people. Nobody can beat me being Cece, they might be able to beat me in a whole lot of other things, but I got CeCe cornered. I got that down, and so I tell young people to just be your best self. Now, that does not eliminate you being a good steward over your gift. You got to practice, you got to work hard, but when you put that time in, when you put it in God's hands, little becomes much.

Dr. Greg Jones: I want to ask you one more question, and it's about your steadfastness. You've been married to Alvin for 39 years, you've been singing and performing and witnessing for more than 40 years.

CeCe Winans: Yes, yes.

Dr. Greg Jones: You've been, in what Eugene Peterson called, a long obedience in the same direction.

CeCe Winans: A long obedience in the same direction, I love that.

Dr. Greg Jones: At the same time that you've been an entrepreneur and doing lots of new things and the creativity just keeps emerging from you, there's been a steadfastness to all of that. When you look back over 40 years, what made that possible?

CeCe Winans: I kept things simple. It's the simple things that have kept me on the right path and my desire has been really simple, and that is to please God in every decision that I make. I always tease people, I'm like, do y'all not think God sees in the dark? We believe he's so great, but somehow we don't think he sees those things that we do that dishonor him, and I've always wanted to honor him with my life. Every marriage has ups and downs, and when I wanted to give up, it was just like, Lord, what do you want? It's not about me, but what is your will for my life? How do we handle this situation?

And whenever you submit everything you do to him, it continues to lead you in the right direction. I wasn't thinking about looking back over 40 years when I was 17, when I was a teenager, my heart was set on pleasing him, so peer pressure would come, but I'm like, again, like Peter and John said, do I think about what you say or do I do what God say? And it always makes sense to me to just please God. The way I started, I wanted to continue, and it's a lot of things in life in this industry from recording to, like you said, the different things that I've done that can try to pull you away, distract you from the simple, narrow road, and I was just determined not to be distracted. There's no way I'm turning off the path.

Dr. Greg Jones: Thank you for participating in this conversation with The Hope People. Our aim is to inspire you to become an agent of hope yourself, and to help us cultivate a sense of wellbeing for all. To join our mission and learn more about this show, visit thehopepeoplepodcast.com. If you enjoyed this conversation, remember to rate and review wherever you get your audio content.